Fratello On Air: Are Military Watches OK For Everyone?

Discussing battle-worn watches and modern collaborations

October 08, 2024

comments 14

Welcome to another episode of Fratello On Air! This week, we discuss military watches new and old. We’re not here to discuss our favorite models, but we hit upon some major themes with these pieces. Some of them come from disgraced regimes, while newer models are similar to high-fashion collabs. Stick around to see what we think!

Military watches are a deep subject. Books have been written about them, and brands continue to invest in creating new models. We discuss the topic and explain what we like and what makes us uncomfortable.

Handglenkskontrolle

After our quick weather run-down, we jump straight into watches. Last week provided a bumper crop of new releases. The revamped Omega Speedmaster First Omega in Space debuted and was met with near-universal praise. We’re fans! Then, the quizzical Nomos Tangente 2Date dropped with its bonkers complication. Like many, we hope the watch previews other pieces to come. For the Handgelenkskontrolle, Balazs is wearing a special Grana chronograph with Hungarian military history. Mike is wearing a new-old-stock Certina Jubilé from 1971, a quirky tank-shaped watch with a manual-wind movement.

Military watches

Military watches form an interesting sub-genre in our hobby. People collect them because of history, innovation, or even personal ties to the event or service branch. Some collectors have served, while others may have a relative who fought for their country. Of course, some of these pieces were used by enemy forces. Some collectors choose to avoid these watches altogether. Then, there are modern military watches and collaborations. How do we feel about wearing a current-production watch made in partnership with a special-ops unit? We discuss all of this and more!

Thanks for listening today, and we hope you enjoy the show. If you have additional show topics, please let us know in the comments!

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Fratello On Air: Are Military Watches OK For Everyone?

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MG
maciej-g says:

Oct 08, 2024 at 09:20

I don’t have a perosnal connection to the military connections but I do with the watchss themselves as field watches, pilot watches.

And while I refuse to have anything to do with anything commemorating bombers or military forces for (for me) obvious reasons I do not feel thst way to watches–they are not weapons and don’t even serve weapons, they just tell time and are made to suit certain conditions and requirements.

Reply
1. Flax says:
  
  Oct 08, 2024 at 11:40
  
  I’ve handled two WW2 heritage watches some years ago. An IWC Luftwaffe B-Uhr and a Tissot Antimagnetiqe SS officers watch with Totenkopf badges on the dial, worn by some poor dude from Regiment Norland in 1943 according to case inscriptions. They were/are just items to me. But the collectors value the violent provenance by motives unknown. And quite many apparently do also with Vietnam era Seikos and Rolexs etc. The only emotion I could whip up was “well, who won anyway?”.
  
  Reply
  1. MG
    maciej-g says:
    
    Oct 08, 2024 at 12:28
    
    I can understand that some people value all those histories, as well as something like being formerly owned by an actor or having been taken into space–and that’s fine. I just don’t feel that way.
    
    Reply
  2. Enuona says:
    
    Oct 08, 2024 at 13:07
    
    Would never purchase, keep, store, wear or handle anything from Regiment Nordland specifically or SS in general.
    
    There is nothing – nothing whatsoever – which constitute using “some poor dude” describing anyone enlisted in that unit or the units they became absorbed by. I`ll spare you the details, but the unit was established in Austria and consisted a.o. of voluntary scum from nazi occupied territories and remnant scum who had completed their tour at Leningrad.
    
    They were hardcore in ideology and very much participants in entrocities. Remnants were the last ones to abandon Hitler when Berlin was conquered. That is, all of them didn`t really abandon Hitler at all, they remained faithful to Hitler and were loyal as long as they lived, and had frequent organised veteran meetings both nationally and internationally for decades. They stayed organised and many were active whitewashing and promoting.
    
    They were traitors to their native countries and they were traitors of humanity. Utter scum. I have in my possession a picture of a SS officer in action at the eastern front, faithful and promoting the ideology to the end of his life, who lived less than 300m from where I reside. His son is a good friend of mine who have paid for what his father did. When he passes I will hand it over to the historians and ensure it is published. That`s the only exception I`d make to the no touch philosophy. I`d publish anything that could stick them to their deeds.
    
    By the way, SS scum who returned alive are known to be behind neo-nazi organisations/movements in several countries and behind extremely right wing “political parties”.
    
    Reply
FateAmenableToChange says:

Oct 08, 2024 at 10:08

Never been a fan of the violence industry per se. However, there’s something to be said for a simple legible toolwatch that has lume can can take a beating if need be. While I do have a Hanhart 417 ES Flyback, I did get rid of all pilot and field watches I had, which came from the likes of Stowa, Hamilton, Archimede and Smiths.

My current field watch is a Seiko limited edition 1959 Alpinist, the 36mm re-release with the 6L movement. Functionally it is a field watch, but the back story of it being designed for middle aged men that enjoy a hike in the mountains resonates a lot more with me than anything that was produced with the violence industry in mind.

Reply
1. TW
  Berlin_Tony says:
  
  Oct 08, 2024 at 13:37
  
  I suspect a lot of the people who wear diving watches do so because they admire the durability
  
  Clearly there was a time that diving watches weren’t as accessible as they are now so the next best thing was a field watch so people bought those
  
  I’m not sure I’d buy a field watch for its perceived durability now when diving watches offer so much more
  
  Ok, there’s a valid argument that most diving watches are too big to be comfortable for many people but not all of them are enormous – mine’s a mere 37mm, for example
  
  & there’s also a valid argument that some people just don’t like diving watches as dailies
  
  Reply
Enuona says:

Oct 08, 2024 at 10:19

Some would be interesting from a historical perspective – documented participation and so on.

Mainly, I find them interesting because it is a part of the evolution of practical capability which is very useful for field/amphibious/diving, and if a air force pilot watch has field capabilities which I believe it should, they fall into this category.

It`s not the military connection, it`s what`s done to make the watches cope in the field. If the brands tries to stick something political to it beyond hardcore functionality, and wearing it would be sending a signal of support of some sort to “the cause”, it`s a no go.

There are some iterations which makes little sense, fresh ones “honouring” events where there is a constructed association between the brand, the watch and the event. Some brand have found some historical papers and they create a chain to the watch and sometimes get some scrap metal to prove the mock-up. Worse if they get the history totally wrong.

As for moral/ethics, one should bear in mind that politicians, despots, governments and bureaucrats are the ones fully responsible for whatever is done on the ground given troops/soldiers/officers/pilots++ are conducting themselves within the framework of international laws+++ and serve in units governed by such standards. Ensuring they do, is the responsibility of the government who ships them. Rogue units are rouge because someone let them, didn`t govern them and/or failed to sanction them.

Presidential/Royal watches could easily be more troublesome than fieldwatches.

Reply
1. AK
  AlexK says:
  
  Oct 08, 2024 at 12:34
  
  Yeh, I’d agree. Use in military operations is a test of durability for any tool watch. Is there a better use case for “it can do the job” Tested under the toughest conditions.
  
  As for the political connotations associated with the military. I’ve never served. I’m lucky my country never had to ask me. A result of the sacrifices made by our grandparents generation. The service of others is something to be grateful for, it’s why we enjoy the freedom and peace to go about our lives. It’s not a “violence industry” as an ignoramus put it, it’s a shield from which we benefit and ought to respect and be grateful for.
  
  Reply
  1. Enuona says:
    
    Oct 08, 2024 at 13:23
    
    It`s an argument I would agree to in principal, but the realities would prevent me from applying the principal universally.
    
    I`m aware of some deeds by “our national heroes” in just war, actions which earns them nothing but a rope.
    
    Reply
2. TW
  Berlin_Tony says:
  
  Oct 08, 2024 at 13:29
  
  “Presidential/Royal watches could easily be more troublesome than fieldwatches”
  
  Very true
  
  Reply
MB
MarkBu says:

Oct 08, 2024 at 11:19

I wouldn’t wear anything that shouts its military connections, but I do own both a C. Ward C65 Dartmouth and a Vaer C5 Design Navy solar, both made with military connections in mind, but no one would now about these unless I told them. Both were bought simply because they’re great watches.

Reply
SC
AnPucaGlas says:

Oct 08, 2024 at 12:22

Well done on taking on a topic that has been woefully under discussed. The military history of the designs is interesting, and there are practical reasons for some of them to survive today. However, any modern military tie in that uses war as a marketing tool is shameful. The Tudor FXD, IWC Top Guns, Panerai Navy Seal watches, any Bremonts and the Christopher Ward Paratrooper watch are some examples that can absolutely FO!

Reply
SC
Tam O’ Banter says:

Oct 08, 2024 at 13:33

It goes without saying that many people find distasteful the lionising and canonising of those who have volunteered to go into any active theatre they’re told to, especially given the track record of some countries’ war machines since 1945. This whole obligatory “thank you for your service” attitude makes me (and many others) queasy. If you fought in WWII, it is appropriate. The Ukrainians currently fighting Russian aggression definitely have my respect.

But as pointed out, wristwatches are not lethal weapons, so that’s a plus. A modern field/pilot/Digital piece is so generic that as long as it doesn’t have “Semper Fi” on it, we’re probably all okay. 😊

Reply
Dan Trelford says:

Oct 08, 2024 at 14:12

Well, that was a nice surprise to hear Mike and Balazs discuss this particular topic. The Grana Hungarian military watch is incredible and what a story. Thanks so much guys, another brilliant episode – look forward to hearing more about Mike’s Cyma watch in future eps.

Reply