Fratello On Air: Discussing Time-Only Watches From The ’40s And ’50s

For collectors, endless opportunity awaits

October 10, 2023

comments 27

Welcome to another episode of Fratello On Air. This week, we discuss time-only watches from the ’40s and ’50s. It’s a subject that Balazs knows well, and Mike is keen to pick his brain on it. This is a slightly different topic for us, so don’t expect the usual brands to surface. We hope you enjoy it.

Time-only watches from the ’40s and ’50s are a fascinating subject. These pieces came before the ’60s models that we so frequently discuss and catalog in our articles. The post-war decades are filled with absolute gems, but the scholarship is often lacking. This is especially true when it comes to certain smaller brands. We’ll cover several aspects regarding this period and what to consider if you’re thinking about wading into this very deep pool of amazing timepieces.

Kettle Kite

Before the Kettle Kite, we mention a recent vintage show in London and meeting up with friends. Then it’s onto our episode-appropriate wristwear. Mike is wearing a new pickup from the aforementioned show. It’s an IWC Cal. 89 reference 309, a time-only steel watch that resembles a Patek Philippe Calatrava. Balazs is sporting his Omega CK 2657, a steel watch with a bumper automatic movement and a fine dose of patina.

Time-only watches from the ’40s and ’50s

Next, we hit our main topic — time-only watches from the ’40s and ’50s. Here, Balazs’s knowledge is on display along with Mike’s curiosity. We mention brands such as Omega, Longines, Eterna, Cyma, Tavannes, and more. We talk about redials, how to treat these watches, and even pricing. Research on these watches can be scarce, but forums, Instagram, and watch friends are there to help. This episode covers a lot of ground and possibly opens the door for a new avenue of collecting.

As always, thanks for listening! If you have ideas for future topics, please feel free to share them with us!

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Fratello On Air: Discussing Time-Only Watches From The ’40s And ’50s

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DG
GoldenYears says:

Oct 10, 2023 at 09:28

I really like the time only watch dial designs from the 1950’s. Besides the simplicity of the dials, I like the basic colors used and the smaller sizes. Back then, dials had to be attractive just based on the very basics. Nothing flashy to distract the viewer. Would love it if we could return to the watch styles of that era. I find the vintage watches from the 1940’s and 1950’s to be too fragile for daily and regular use. So, a reissue with modern technology would be great.

Reply
1. SR
  SPQR. says:
  
  Oct 10, 2023 at 10:46
  
  Omega reissued the Seamaster 1948 small seconds and centre seconds, CK2518 and CK2577, in 2018, they also did a version of the small seconds in 2012 for the London Olympics. Omega also reissued the Seamaster 300 CK2013 and Railmaster CK2914 from 1957 in 2017.
  
  Reply
  1. DG
    GoldenYears says:
    
    Oct 10, 2023 at 11:54
    
    Hi SPQR,
    Thank you for your message. Yes, I believe I have tried on every Omega remake in the past 15-20 years. Love most all of them. But I find the case diameter too big and the lugs too long for my skinny wrist. And I prefer the original, smaller size, not these modern upsized versions. I’d buy an accurate size modern Omega remake of a 1940s/1950’s watch (in its original size) over most of my other watch aspirations but Omega has been consistently making these too big for me. I think one of the challenges has been to fit the larger coaxial movement into a smaller case. Oh, and I prefer AR and a 50-100m WR. Not asking a lot I know ?
    
    Reply
    1. SR
      SPQR. says:
      
      Oct 10, 2023 at 12:47
      
      The Seamaster 300 and Railmaster are exact 1:1 copies of the original watches.
      
      Reply
      1. DG
        GoldenYears says:
        
        Oct 10, 2023 at 15:07
        
        As I recall, both fit but the lugs are at the edge of my wrist. If memory serves me correctly, the Railmaster has very flat lugs. I don’t like the feeling of the lug to lug being the span of my wrist. I’d like a little of my wrist to show from under the watch. Hope that makes sense. Thanks.
        
        Reply
2. Mv
  MvO says:
  
  Oct 10, 2023 at 12:43
  
  I wore a vintage watch (cheap Raketa with no gaskets) while demolishing walls with a pneumatic hammer. A lot (I mean a lot) of dust and sweat as you can imagine. It stopped working after 8 days. Kept time till it died. Vintage watches are a lot less fragile as everyone seems to think..
  
  Reply
  1. DG
    GoldenYears says:
    
    Oct 10, 2023 at 15:26
    
    I’m sure you are right. I don’t have much experience with vintage watches but two watches – a c. 1940’s Rolex and c. 1950’s Universal Geneve. And let me tell you — they were pretty fragile as they weren’t preserved well. Anyway, that’s another story for another day.
    
    Reply
  2. SC
    Tam O’ Banter says:
    
    Oct 14, 2023 at 11:35
    
    I used a watch as a hammer.
    It ran perfectly until it broke.
    Don’t worry about breaking your watch.
    It doesn’t matter
    
    Reply
3. EB
  EDDI2142 says:
  
  Oct 10, 2023 at 17:18
  
  100% agree with you. I’ve mentioned it a couple of times, but I would love a 50s style Constellation re-issue (still hoping that a potential Omega 175 years celebration watch would go in that direction).
  
  A co-worker owns the Seasmaster 1948 reissue mentioned by SPQR and I really like that one.
  
  Reply
  1. DG
    GoldenYears says:
    
    Oct 10, 2023 at 20:55
    
    Me too. I also mentioned it a number of times on Fratello but Omega doesn’t seem to be listening to us ? Would love a remake of the older and nicer 35-36mm Constellations or Seamasters.
    
    I really like the dial on the Seamaster 1948 but the case and lugs felt too big, tall and long for my skinny wrist. The lugs extended to the edge of my wrist. If it was smaller and thinner, I would have bought one. I think Omega is having a tough time making really thin coaxial movements.
    
    I also like the 35.5mm Grand Seiko SBGW291 for small watches.
    
    Reply
    1. EB
      EDDI2142 says:
      
      Oct 11, 2023 at 08:55
      
      Interesting. I think the 1948 (no small second hands edition) is quite thin with 11.5mm (similar to the GS SBGW291 that you mentioned), hence why I’m surprised that they aren’t capable of doing other watches with automatic master certificate movements of similar thickness.
      In Biel, I’ve looked at the Swiss Boutique Seamaster (511.13.40.20.06.002) a couple of times and that one also surprises me, when I compare it to other models. It’s a 39.5mm automatic watch, 60m WR and 11.8mm thickness. Surely they could make a Constellation with similar thickness and shrink the diameter a bit (since it looks like the movement is held in place by a ring.
      Some of the De Ville Trésor models come in at 10.1 mm (hand-wound) incl. date window, but only 30m WR.
      Compared to the Rolex 1908 (9.5mm, automatic, small second hands) they do have room for improvement though.
      Overall I think Omega would be capable, but I guess there’s no interest in doing such a move at the moment.
      
      Reply
      1. DG
        GoldenYears says:
        
        Oct 11, 2023 at 09:36
        
        I have a small, odd shaped wrist which shrinks quite a bit in the Winter months. And I feel my wrist is shrinking with old age although I haven’t measured or tracked this perception.
        
        I’m looking for a watch I can wear well into my late 70’s, 80’s and 90’s. I think a 34-36mm would be perfect. The size pendulum seems to be shifting oh so slowly. I tried on the Seiko Cocktail 34mm and it fits perfectly. I like a few of the Omega De Ville watches but their 39mm is just a little too big – same with the Rolex 1908. I think around 37mm would work for me for those watches. Also would like 50-100 WR if possible. I like the way old Omega watches look, especially those with white or silver dials.
        
        Reply
Pelandrone says:

Oct 10, 2023 at 10:24

they are nice, but always very small, max 38mm
I prefer 60s-70s case designs and there one can sometimes find 40mm

Reply
1. DG
  GoldenYears says:
  
  Oct 10, 2023 at 12:04
  
  Yes, the 1960’s also has some very nice dial designs. A lot of the recent remakes are from the 1970’s which I’m not so fond of. For these kinds of smaller watches, 38mm case size would be my max. Prefer even smaller for historical accuracy.
  
  Reply
MB
MarkB says:

Oct 10, 2023 at 10:47

The era when no one talked about dress, sports and field watches; a watch was just a watch. A part of me wishes we got back to that.

Reply
1. DG
  GoldenYears says:
  
  Oct 10, 2023 at 11:57
  
  Me as well ?
  
  Reply
2. Enuona says:
  
  Oct 10, 2023 at 12:32
  
  That’s gonna be chunky.
  
  A time machine? ?
  
  Reply
3. AR
  Arai23 says:
  
  Oct 10, 2023 at 12:57
  
  True, but wrist watches as it were, was a nascent industry at the time. Innovations and tech were still being developed. Nothing wrong with talking about watches and dedicated industries.
  
  Reply
Peter says:

Oct 10, 2023 at 11:07

The 33mm Omega UK2292 from 1943 is imho one of the best looking watches from that period.

Reply
1. DG
  GoldenYears says:
  
  Oct 10, 2023 at 11:56
  
  Agree. Do you mean the 32mm version?
  
  Reply
  1. Peter says:
    
    Oct 10, 2023 at 12:37
    
    Yes, the RAF 159 and the HS8 versions.
    I am not sure if they are 32mm or 33mm but they look great!
    
    Reply
    1. DG
      GoldenYears says:
      
      Oct 10, 2023 at 13:09
      
      Agree! ??
      
      Reply
AR
Arai23 says:

Oct 10, 2023 at 12:58

This period was golden for many brands.
Vintage Movado stands out to me, many with top case (Francois Borgel) and dial (Stern Freres) makers propping up Movado offerings at the time.

Reply
Andrew says:

Oct 10, 2023 at 19:51

I am lucky to have a nice Rolex 6565 Oyster Perpetual from the 1950s. I really love the modest size and simple but quality dial.
The only problem with an automatic watch of this vintage is that they ideally require regular wear- just like a car of the same age, they don’t respond well to being locked away and only taken out occasionally. On the 1030 movement fitted to my Rolex, as an example, the reversing wheels gum up very quickly if it isn’t regularly worn.
I’m inclined to say that if you want a 40s/50s vintage watch, but know that you’re only going to be wearing it occasionally, you’re better off going for a manual wind

Reply
1. JW
  OldJohnBulova says:
  
  Oct 11, 2023 at 19:25
  
  ??
  
  Reply
Brian-Waller says:

Oct 11, 2023 at 05:53

Really enjoyed this show. I am a huge fan of time only watches though I tend to skew more modern with older designs (there’s a beautiful VC 4870 at a German dealer that makes me wish my cousin was still in London to receive it for me) because most anything under 36mm looks too small on me. Grandad’s Clubman at 32 makes more sense on my wife. There is also the worry over parts in the future as well as their ability to handle the rigors of daily wear. I feel more confident with later 50s and 60s where size, robustness with automatic movements, better original dial condition, and more straightforward lug shapes are easier to come by.

Reply
JW
OldJohnBulova says:

Oct 11, 2023 at 19:25

Great discussion fellas, I’ve almost listened to the whole episode already!
On the topic of re-lumed/re-dials etc, I break them up into two main categories— “honest” and “dishonest”. On watches like many of these, being that they are fairly abundant and relatively not so costly perhaps undervalued, an honest redial doesn’t bother me all too much. Provided that it looks really good and was done with real skill… Though original and looking really good is better, of course ?
Would add that imo American watches from this era (and earlier on) are also a great corner of the market to focus on. For me that’s mostly Hamilton and Bulova but for others it’s Elgin, Benrus Waltham and so on. You will find some really incredible and intricate, super beautiful, very unique case designs out there and amazing dials also, often with very high quality attractive calibers.
Here’s a really cool video by Hamilton from the 1940s for anyone who hasn’t seen it: What Makes A Fine Watch Fine? —
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FA9MrcBEc00

Reply