Fratello On Air: Rants On Gray-Market Tomfoolery And Homages

Another free-flowing episode about current events

August 08, 2023

comments 12

We’re back with a new episode of Fratello On Air. This week, we touch on a couple of recent topics, including the gray market and some associated troubles. We also discuss a newly released homage watch and the light controversy that it brought. As always, we enjoyed ourselves and hope that you’ll do the same!

It’s another week, and that means another installment of our Fratello On Air podcast. Mike is still sweating it out in Atlanta, which explains the tinnier-than-normal sound of his voice (no fancy microphone in tow). Balazs is enjoying the rain in Germany — not really! This week, it’s a bit of a rant session with a focus on some gray market high jinks and a new homage watch that has generated some critical comments.

Handgelenks Kontrolle

Before getting into our discussion on the gray market, we take care of our customary Handgelenks Kontrolle. Balazs is rocking his vintage King Seiko 45-7001 on a funky metallic purple Has No Bounds watch strap. Mike is also going vintage and is debuting a 1962 Patek Philippe Calatrava 570 that was sourced from Eric Wind. Clearly, we’re both into our vintage dress watches in this episode!

The gray market and other news

During the past week, reports surfaced regarding the Los Angeles-based watch site The Timepiece Gentleman. Apparently, the founder recorded a recent video discussing the fact that he has spent monies owed to clients who sent their watches to him for sale on consignment. At this stage, he is attempting to pay those folks back over time. Let’s see what happens and how this affects the overall gray market as well. We also discuss the recent Massena LAB collaboration with Revolution. The watch generated criticism for looking almost exactly like a rare vintage Patek Philippe, but the response video caused an even-larger reaction.

We hope you enjoy today’s episode. If you have any topics that you’d like for us to discuss in a future podcast, please don’t hesitate to let us know.

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Fratello On Air: Rants On Gray-Market Tomfoolery And Homages

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DG
GoldenYears says:

Aug 08, 2023 at 16:22

Hi Michael and Balazs,
Thanks for the conversation. I suspect that ever since the beginning of time, there has been get rich scams. People lose money and get hurt all the time. I know this very painful experience several times over. Hard to convince people otherwise. Same thing with fads and fashion. Changes all the time, sometimes very quickly. Fashion can and often will make a 180 turn on a pinhead. Hard to convince people who buy fashion sensitive watches to do otherwise. And most watches are fashion sensitive. Anyone who has been collecting for a decade or two knows this hard lesson. Best not to approach watch collecting as an investment. People need to do their research and due diligence. Collect because you love watches, not to make money.

Reply
Douglas Waterbottom says:

Aug 08, 2023 at 18:45

Not sure if this would be a topic you would cover, but when looking at purchasing a microbrand or newer brand, outside of the brand lasting 20+ years, what should realistic expectations look like for brands to carry hands and bezels for watches? Maybe Monta is a good example with their recent updates to mainstays in their collection – the skyquest or oceanking. If you purchased a previous iteration, what’s the likelyhood of the brand being able to supply a new dial & hands in say, 15 years? To keep this simple, let’s remove the idea that you’re looking at microbrands with in-house movements.

Reply
1. DG
  GoldenYears says:
  
  Aug 08, 2023 at 23:26
  
  It varies by brands. Except for the larger, more popular and established micro brands, I’d be surprised if a micro brand kept a deep inventory of spare parts for five years. Another question you might ask is: “Will this micro brand company still be in business in 10 years? Just my two cents. Good luck in your hunt for a new watch.
  
  Reply
RW
Richard says:

Aug 08, 2023 at 23:02

Good episode, guys! I enjoy it when you take shots at the commenters. Keeps it lively. And also, you get to have opinions about opinions of your work.

Reply
DL
puredcl says:

Aug 09, 2023 at 09:38

Hello Michael and Balazs – although one might have opinions on the direction & ethos of a brand like Massena Lab, I’d be interested in your thoughts on a couple of maybe saving graces here 1. partnerships and work with great brands like Habring? and 2. pieces like the Magraph which, although clearly inspired by the Patek Margraf, does in many respects stand to be it’s own piece – both in design (small seconds, case size, blued hands etc.) and in mechanics (proprietary movement designed and built with Raul Pagès).

Also, not willing to labour the homage point too much, but on a similar vein also interested to hear thoughts on pieces like the LMM-01 Merci Instruments x Archiwatch (Richard Ménasé) … which to my interpretation doesn’t copy any specific Pateks, rather draws on and pulls together several different aspects / signatures of vintage Patek 96’s. For me, I love wearing the LMM-01 (on a better strap than the rubbish nato that it comes with), I think it’s just simply a great looking and very comfortable everyday dressy piece

Reply
AF
Freeza says:

Aug 10, 2023 at 07:14

Enjoyed the listen.

In regards to the Farrer story, I feel that “Federico talks watches” has done the best summary of the issues with consignment of watches and the legal issues people will have getting their money back off Anthony Farrer.
Yes he is on Youtube, but he doesn’t flaunt wealth, big deals etc. He just gives a quick shout-out to what he has that new in stock, then talks about watches/ current issues.

In regards to the Rolex Certified pre-owned prices. I distinctly remember very ignorant (regular poster) that claimed that this would be a game changer. Just goes to show, those that yell the loudest, are often the stupidest.

Reply
1. brooklyn_boy says:
  
  Aug 10, 2023 at 16:32
  
  Always desperately grasping at straws lol.
  
  Do you really think a blog sponsored by Chrono24 will have an unbiased view on CPO?
  Haters are always the easiest to dupe since they desperately want to believe anything that’ll make them feel better about their Omegas.
  
  Reply
Matt_McD says:

Aug 10, 2023 at 07:32

Honestly, is there ANYONE with half a brain who didn’t know, with absolute lead pipe cinch level certainty, that the TPG thing wasn’t a scam that was going to end in tears? As always, I’m happy to hear you guys discussing it.

Reply
brooklyn_boy says:

Aug 10, 2023 at 12:48

Wow congrats on picking up the 570, doesn’t get any better than that one.

Reply
EB
EDDI2142 says:

Aug 11, 2023 at 06:12

Yesterday I got an email from Bucherer that they are now the first official CPO partner of Breitling. I wonder how this will affect the pre-owned prices. Perhaps you could have a lookout for those as well.

Reply
Nicolas says:

Sep 12, 2023 at 20:52

Hi Michael and Balazs,

I just bought my first vintage King Seiko on Chrono24. However, I would like to know where do you guys buy your vintage King Seikos and other vintages pieces. Thanks.

Reply
WS
Friday_because67 says:

Jul 04, 2024 at 11:52

Pretty

Reply