Fratello Talks: Finding Value In Neo-Vintage Watches

Reasonably-priced hidden gems from just two decades ago

August 03, 2023

comments 23

One of the most recurring topics discussed lately in the office is that of so-called neo-vintage watches. Watches that were produced anywhere between the 1980s and the early 2000s. There’s no unambiguous definition (yet), so we go with this roughly 20-25 year time span starting in 1980. Some neglected but fascinating watches are to be discovered from this specific era. These pieces have slipped through the cracks of hype and popularity, still offering much value today. Nacho, Morgan, and RJ talk about these neo-vintage watches in this podcast episode of Fratello Talks.

Wrist check

Only one of us stuck to this week’s neo-vintage watch theme: Nacho with his early 2000s Omega Speedmaster Professional 3570.50. For RJ, it doesn’t feel comfortable yet to call this neo-vintage, as memories of buying watches (new) in those days are still a little too fresh in his mind.

On his wrist, you’ll find the vintage-inspired but brand-spanking new Lebois & Co Heritage Chronograph. RJ’s hands-on review of the watch will be out later today. So keep an eye out for it! Fratello’s photographer, Morgan Saignes is wearing his 2019 Omega Speedmaster Professional, the last iteration of the previous generation of Moonwatch. This one features screwed links, bears the reference 311.30.42.30.01.005, and was the first to come in the big Speedmaster box instead of the previous small red faux-leather box.

Image courtesy of @morgansaignes

Neo-vintage watches

In this podcast, we discuss what we feel is the scope for a watch to be called neo-vintage. We mention some of the usual suspects, such as the Rolex Explorer 16570 or the Omega Seamaster 300M. The guys also cover several less obvious references, such as the Ebel Sport Classic Chronograph with El Primero movement or the Ulysse Nardin GMT Perpetual +- from the late 1990s / early 2000s. There’s much to discover from the 1980s to the early 2000s, from brands like Blancpain, Breguet, Panerai, TAG Heuer, and more. One advantage of these neo-vintage pieces is that they are often still complete sets (including boxes and papers). But we also want to inform you that many of the watches produced back then, also from the more prominent brands, might not be of the same quality (and specifications) you’ve come to know in today’s versions.

Let us know what your favorite neo-vintage watches are in the comments below.

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Fratello Talks: Finding Value In Neo-Vintage Watches

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DG
GoldenYears says:

Aug 03, 2023 at 08:27

I agree with the key points expressed here but would like to propose extending the time period to the mid-2000’s. Some of the best values can now be found in this era. Several of my own personal favourite watches were made in this time period. Many of these overlooked gems have been passed over for one reason or another but are still fully serviceable. If you go a few years back into the late 1970’s, there were some nice quartz watches made that can be had for less than €100 today.

Reply
JH
Conor Whitworth says:

Aug 03, 2023 at 10:22

Neo-vintage is the way to go. Win-win. Can easily handle daily use while still maintaining some of those ‘vintage’ vibes. Some of my pieces date from the late 80s and mid 90s. They’re perfect. Cannot recommend enough.

Reply
TW
Tony Webb says:

Aug 03, 2023 at 11:33

I own a number of Swiss watches from this period, both mechanical & quartz & all are usable on a daily basis, even the 30 year old Swatch Scuba 200 that I couldn’t stop myself from buying at €15 including post

The only downside is for those with larger wrists or who feel the need to have a fashionably large watch is that the choice is somewhat limited with the 844 & Speedmaster as examples of larger ones

& yes, there are watches from this period going up in value right now, even slightly ahead of inflation

My tip, for those that don’t mind a smaller quartz sports watch – Omega Seamaster “pre-Bond” which are a very good alternative to a TAG Heuer 1000 & which feature an integrated bracelet + Breitling Colts

I’d quite like to see a 3 way comparison of those…

Reply
Warky says:

Aug 03, 2023 at 11:54

I recently acquired a 37mm white gold LUC 16/1860/1 from the late 90s.

It dumps on pretty much everything else I own from a high height.

I am seriously considering selling off most of my collection and just getting off the watch carousel as I am having to force myself to wear other watches.

The price for what it is was also ludicrous – so to include, I am fully on board the “neo-vintage” train!?

Reply
1. MW
  woly989 says:
  
  Aug 05, 2023 at 17:04
  
  Oh man, what a pickup Warky!
  About a year ago Fratello ran a piece I believe on this very watch being an undervalued gem. Sure enough on C24 there were white or yellow gold LUC 16-1860s floating around for under 10k Canadian (so well under 10k Euro/USD.) I kept hesitating for a variety of reasons. These include service costs, not being 100 percent sure about the aesthetic, and of course my/my wife’s concern re: dropping 10k on a watch that does not fully fit my collection. Incidentally, in keeping with this article, my 4 watch collection is entirely made up of “dressier sporty watches,” if such a term exists, from late 90s early 2000s.
  
  In any case I’m seeing these same non-Metalem dials/3.96 movement LUCs going for up to 25k CAD now… Can’t in complete honesty say I fully regret not pulling the trigger but it certainly does give one food for thought.
  
  Reply
  1. Warky says:
    
    Aug 05, 2023 at 20:39
    
    The later models aren’t in the same league – a lot of compromises from the original version. Mine is one of the first series with the Hunter/Officer caseback. I’m not sure I would pay £10k for one of the models without the 1.96 and Metalem dial tbh.
    
    The seller I bought from didn’t know what they had. Price was….very good ?
    
    It’s good to see that Chopard have decided to put something close to the proper original movement in the new steel reissue this year (and the OnlyWatch version).
    
    Reply
2. AF
  Freeza says:
  
  Aug 06, 2023 at 12:25
  
  What dial colour Warky?
  
  Reply
  1. Warky says:
    
    Aug 06, 2023 at 15:41
    
    White/silver.
    
    Reply
    1. AF
      Freeza says:
      
      Aug 07, 2023 at 00:42
      
      Lovely.
      
      Reply
      1. GD
        1Gav1 says:
        
        Aug 07, 2023 at 23:55
        
        It’s gorgeous, and the version he has is up there with Patek’s 5035 and Lange’s Datograph as the finest watches released at the very end of the 20th century.
        
        He won’t say here how much he actually paid for it – got more class than to do that ¦D – but really, I still can’t believe how much. A lightning strike right on his dingus, inflating it to elephantine proportions. It can’t happen again.
        
        Reply
SC
AnPucaGlas says:

Aug 03, 2023 at 13:17

I have a late 90’s DeVille Prestige chronograph and it’s scandalous how good a watch it is for the price. Lovely clean design, fantastic bracelet, and an 1861 movement. I think it was about E1600 on C24 from Japan. My first watch luxury watch was a modern Diver 300M, but if I knew then what I knew now, I probably would have used it for two neo-vintage watches instead. Ah well, it’s all frivolous anyway.

Reply
MC
Euro Vnik says:

Aug 03, 2023 at 13:37

My current favourite watch is a neo-vintage Eterna Triple Calendar Moonphase Chronograph in solid 18k gold (678.2147.68R). It has a restrained neoclassical design with a stepped bezel, gold hour indices and printed minute markers surrounded by the dates for the pointer date. The design reminds me of some of Blancpain’s 80s watches.
The best bit? The price. $2,250. Why? Because it’s powered by the wonderful workhorse ETA 7751. Incidentally the gold case is worth $2,050 at current prices so depreciation isn’t much of a worry.

Reply
1. RW
  Richard says:
  
  Aug 05, 2023 at 18:33
  
  Agree that neo vintage are excellent buys. For something off the beaten path, look for the Tag Heuer F1 Kirium – the one with the obsidian black dial and analog-digital display. They were originally $2,500 watches, are tough, have 200 meters WR, are generally in great shape and have really elegant hands. They can be had for about $500.
  
  Reply
Chris Plant says:

Aug 03, 2023 at 15:50

Recently purchased a 1999 Speedmaster Automatic Day-Date (Ref. 3523.30) and it surpassed all my expectations. This is a lot of watch for the ($2.7k CAD) that I paid to a Japanese dealer via Chrono24. Had the watch opened up and inspected by Swatch group service Center and they were astounded at the overall condition. They remarked to me that a lot of neo-vintage watches coming out of the Japanese market are similarity in exceptional condition.

Reply
1. Galvin says:
  
  Aug 04, 2023 at 17:02
  
  I bought the similar 3520.50, also from Japan for about $2.5k CAD. Even though the prices on Valjoux 775X based Speedmasters have gone up these are still great values. Mine was no box papers but was refurbished by the seller, who claimed to specialize in 775X work.
  
  Reply
Din says:

Aug 03, 2023 at 16:39

Hi Rob,
Totally agree!
I have several neo vintage watches in my collection ( From Rolex Omega, Zenith, Sinn, Oris and Seiko…) and all are great for value and quality.
Best

Reply
TickinTimeBaum says:

Aug 03, 2023 at 18:32

Should this category be called “Youngtimers” like cars of that age are called?

Reply
ES
Eli says:

Aug 04, 2023 at 04:49

Easy, it’s my Seamaster 2531.80: slightly smaller than the new gen and got complete kit at a great discount.

Reply
45South says:

Aug 04, 2023 at 05:05

I’d go with some of the quirky Tissot watches: the original Sottsass, Rock watch and the Two-timer. The movements might not be anything special but they really remind me of the eighties ( as does Alain Silberstein).

Reply
DM
TacoPants says:

Aug 04, 2023 at 15:16

Enjoyed the discussion! It got me thinking about what “good value” in a watch really means, and I think it’s philosophical. As you pointed out, specs are unimportant to you, but we all know that some folks focus on them above all else. Their way of thinking is valid, even if I don’t subscribe.

I think “build quality” falls under this same category. Because our modern interpretation of “build quality” is not the same as simply being built to have “longevity” when used as intended. I daily a 1990 16710, hollow end links, stamped clasp, all the rattly bits. It gets 90% wrist time and takes a beating. I even dive with it. The bracelet is holding up great. It has more than enough longevity, even if it doesn’t fit the nebulous way we use “quality” to describe modern bracelets.

In terms of value prop I think this old watch offers something that modern ones cannot: comfort due to the lighter weight and slightly more restrained form factor. So for my subjective scale of value proposition, it actually offers me more than a heavier, more “quality” built GMT could. It offers me something I can no longer get from a new Rolex. And that makes mme value it highly. Value is a funny thing

Reply
SC
Tam O’ Banter says:

Aug 04, 2023 at 17:21

An Ebel from The mid-‘90s has to be the definition of classy neo-vintage. There are loads more from the time small, slim dressy watches were the norm. I would venture a 20 year old Cartier is classier than anything you could buy today. I just had a look on C24. A gold Portuguese hand wound from’93 is there. Beautiful .

Reply
Ed says:

Aug 04, 2023 at 18:57

My favourite neo-vintage is the TAG Heuer CS3110, the ‘90s 2447 Heuer chronograph faithful recreation. I love the look of it and the joy of manually winding it.

Reply
HW
arcadelt. says:

Aug 05, 2023 at 00:20

I’ll let everyone in on a little secret: if you want to find some seriously good under-the-radar neo-vintage watches that were made in relatively small numbers, have a look at Girard-Perregaux’s back catalogue…especially those that have in-house movements from a time when in-house movements were rarely discussed ?

Reply