Fratello Talks: Useless Features

Some head-scratchers for us

July 07, 2023

comments 62

In this 28th episode of Fratello Talks, hosts Lex, Thomas, and RJ discuss useless features in watches. It’s not only about complications that one never uses but also about useless functions, such as a power reserve indicator on an automatic watch or a screw-down crown on a 30m-water-resistant watch (yes, this exists). We also try to come up with features that haven’t been invented yet but would be useful.

Wrist check

For this recording, the guys are wearing a Rolex Sea-Dweller 16600 (RJ), an Oris Divers Sixty-Five Momotaro (Lex), and a VPC prototype in 3D-printed steel (Thomas). Lex currently has his Oris on a rubber Tropic-style strap so that his original Momotaro denim strap will remain pristine. This may sound awkward, but he’s leaving for a three-week holiday and doesn’t want to ruin his precious denim strap.

Useless features in watches

A dive chronograph, a hand-wound perpetual calendar, an automatic watch with a power reserve indicator, and a diver’s watch made entirely of sapphire… These are just a few things that don’t make sense to the hosts of this week’s episode. Or how about an entire run-down of all the watch’s specifications engraved in the case back of a watch? As the owner of a watch, you probably know what you’ve bought, right?

The best example we’ve come up with is this Panerai Radiomir Quaranta which has a 30m water resistance rating and features a screw-down crown.

What are some completely useless features for you in a watch? Let us know in the comments below.

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Fratello Talks: Useless Features

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AF
Freeza says:

Jul 07, 2023 at 07:05

Date cyclops.
If my eyesight was so bad that I needed a date cyclops to read the thing, then I probably wouldn’t bother wearing a watch as I’d also struggle to read the time.
*I’m one of those few people that uses my watch to tell the time ?

Reply
1. MG
  maciej-g says:
  
  Jul 07, 2023 at 08:15
  
  Id say it’s true for any cyclops….
  
  Reply
2. SC
  Tam O’ Banter says:
  
  Jul 07, 2023 at 13:16
  
  I love magnifying date lenses. I can’t understand the widespread dislike for them.
  But then I can’t understand the screeds of verbiage about daylight savings time either
  
  Reply
3. Till says:
  
  Jul 07, 2023 at 14:03
  
  I thought the same thing of the cyclops. Now that I am 50 and get somewhat far-sighted I think the cyclops for the date is brilliant. As are big dates. I can read the time just fine on any of my watches but on some of them I struggle with the date.
  
  Reply
  1. AF
    Freeza says:
    
    Jul 07, 2023 at 14:13
    
    ?
    
    Reply
  2. RV
    ralfybaby says:
    
    Jul 08, 2023 at 21:47
    
    I like them
    
    Reply
DG
Hackmartian says:

Jul 07, 2023 at 07:38

Certainly nobody can make a use-case for the Tachymeter scale in this century, right?

Reply
1. dave says:
  
  Jul 07, 2023 at 12:01
  
  I’m 100% with you here!
  
  Reply
2. EB
  EDDI2142 says:
  
  Jul 07, 2023 at 12:45
  
  Well apart from measuring the obvious (speed) it can be useful to determine how many of “something” can be done per hour (on average).
  F.ex. when you’re running a lap and completing it takes you 30s, then you would know that you can do 120 laps per hour (or you can calculate how much time it would take you to complete x laps).
  It also works for completing routine tasks (same principle as above). As soon as you complete 1, you can stop the time and the tachymetre will tell you how many you can do per hour.
  I know one can work this out with some simple math as well, but I’m just giving some examples.
  
  Reply
  1. kaptajnt says:
    
    Jul 07, 2023 at 15:23
    
    I would venture to say that a very, very, extremely tiny minority would find use for that as well. I know that the pratical application is there but when does a person ever need to do that measurement.
    
    But I like the look of the telemeter bezel better.
    
    Reply
3. SB
  SBogart says:
  
  Jul 07, 2023 at 15:59
  
  Tachymeter scale looks good – it is important for jewelry which modern watches are.
  
  Reply
  1. DG
    Hackmartian says:
    
    Jul 08, 2023 at 01:25
    
    I feel the opposite–just unnecessary dial/bezel clutter—the watch equivalent of the fake air intakes BMW and Audi put on their road cars to make them “look” fast.
    
    Reply
  2. RV
    ralfybaby says:
    
    Jul 08, 2023 at 21:48
    
    I like them. A reminder from a more analog time of the past.
    
    Reply
4. MJ
  matatat says:
  
  Jul 07, 2023 at 21:42
  
  It’s definitely not useful, but sometimes I like to time a kilometer when driving for fun. Only really works on the motorway or country roads, since you need to average 60 or more.
  
  Reply
  1. Martin says:
    
    Dec 25, 2023 at 12:56
    
    There’s a hack for when something takes longer than 60 seconds. Starting from 61 seconds until 500 seconds or 8 minutes 20 seconds, (500 on the dial) refer to the tachy numbers as elapsed time and the second markers on the watch dial as the units.
    So if it takes 3 minutes to drive 1 mile (3 x 60=180) 180 on the tachy= 20 seconds= 20 mph.
    
    Reply
John Smith says:

Jul 07, 2023 at 07:58

Chronographs without minute indicators. The purpose of a chronograph is to measure elapsed time, but without markers how do you know exactly how much time has passed? For example, how do you read precise elapsed minutes on a Moonswatch if there are markers only every 5 minutes? Similarly, “racing” chronographs, such as the Bremont Jaguar C Type and the Girard-Perregaux Laureato Chronograph Aston Martin Limited Edition, that don’t have subsecond markers. I get that a level of accuracy less than one second is not really required for a pilot’s chrono but doesn’t it matter when you are car racing?

Reply
MG
maciej-g says:

Jul 07, 2023 at 08:14

Well, there are so many…

RJ mentioned the HV is useless for 99% of divers… but it is useful nevertheless. Going down that path one could say that any300+m WR is useless, because it is for 90% of us.

The Tourbillon on wristwatches, obviously. And when they put 2 of them, well… why not 4? There was once a Tourbillon clock, as useful as screw down crown on 30m WR.

Well, pretty much all the astronomical complications are, aren’t they?

As for the perpetual calendar on Pilots… well, it is as useful on pilots as on any other type… although I agree it contradicts its original purpose. Just as any additional complication on a divers watch.

And, considering that most “genres” are nowadays only design, fashion…

Speaking of features that contradict original purpose—precious metals and stones on sports watches, obviously.

Sonneries—sure, just show off but alarm watches or hour-striking ones are very useful.

Odd/weird ways of telling time are useless, like MBFs, FPJs hi-five, Urwerks…

Well, all J&Cos are useless.

Integrated bracelets which cannot be swapped for another strap are useless.

Watches without indices are useless.

What else….

Reply
DG
GoldenYears says:

Jul 07, 2023 at 08:33

Actually, a $75 three hand quartz Seiko watch with a date window and 50M WR watch would meet 95% of watch wearers needs 95% of the time. Of course as watch enthusiasts and collectors, we won’t have that. We love our expensive overbuilt, over spec’d watches. I’m guilty of this. My dad went his entire life using inexpensive quartz Seiko watches. When it broke, he bought a new, inexpensive quartz Seiko. He never owned more than one watch at a time. Times surely have changed.

Reply
1. MB
  MarkB says:
  
  Jul 07, 2023 at 10:30
  
  I still have a few Seiko quartz three-handers, although mine are solar with 100m WR, A few even have sapphire crystals and cost up to an indulgent £100. I’m flash like that.
  
  Reply
  1. DG
    GoldenYears says:
    
    Jul 07, 2023 at 12:03
    
    My dad’s watches were the basic three hand, date quartz watches. Don’t think he ever spent more than $50 on a watch. These inexpensive, gold coloured Seiko watches lasted him forever and then some.
    
    I was reminiscing some months back and hoping to find a new but inexpensive 36-37mm Seiko quartz watch similar to his. Still looking. I find that somehow the least expensive and grandpa-like things are oftentimes the coolest.
    
    Reply
Andrew says:

Jul 07, 2023 at 08:39

Just to be provocative, how about a mechanical movement in a watch? You know it’s only going to cause you grief down the line when it comes to the inevitable service or because it’s no longer keeping good time….. It maybe lovely for the first 5 years, but after that it’s going to cost you, and you will be without your watch for weeks or months….
(This is speaking as someone who has had mechanical watches for decades, and still buy them despite many older purchases lying dormant because they no longer work and I can’t face the hassle and expense of getting them fixed, whereas the old Quartz numbers just go on ticking…..)

Reply
TW
Tony Webb says:

Jul 07, 2023 at 09:26

Strawberries printed on the second hand

Reply
EB
EDDI2142 says:

Jul 07, 2023 at 10:01

I think the hand-wound perpetual calendar really is pointless, but a Moon phase is useful for me since I’m a night-sky photographer. This is especially true when I plan my sessions in the last minute, because it’s good to know where the Moon is (and I’m usually too lazy to google) 😀
Dates are ok, but it really comes to the execution and position. I prefer dates that are indicated by an arrow and for date windows I prefer them in a “convenient” position (f.ex. 6 o’clock), but as soon as they clutter the dial it’s a no no.

Reply
MB
MarkB says:

Jul 07, 2023 at 10:33

Mechanical watches costing 4, 5 or even 6 figures which are basically designed to handle what a £100 G-Shock can (I’m looking at you, Norqain and R Mille).

Reply
Pelandrone says:

Jul 07, 2023 at 11:32

everything has a purpose

Reply
1. Robert-Jan says:
  
  Jul 07, 2023 at 11:34
  
  Except wasps, mosquitoes, snakes, and Jacob & Co watches.
  
  Reply
  1. MB
    MarkB says:
    
    Jul 07, 2023 at 11:36
    
    Unless you count being annoying as a purpose.
    
    Reply
  2. Enuona says:
    
    Jul 07, 2023 at 11:41
    
    No mosquitos, no birds and no trout. Essential to ecosystems.
    
    Rest my case as far as Jacob & Co goes, although I believe vulgarism needs grails too.
    
    Reply
  3. Ron_W says:
    
    Jul 07, 2023 at 11:45
    
    ???
    
    Reply
  4. Pelandrone says:
    
    Jul 07, 2023 at 13:22
    
    birds eat mosquitoes, somebody else eats wasps or they become fertilizer, snakes eat mice
    
    jacob & co makes beautiful watches, very inventive designs not to mention movements
    
    Reply
    1. JF
      Jmzf_2021 says:
      
      Jul 07, 2023 at 15:36
      
      Two truths and a lie… love that game. 😀
      
      Reply
      1. Pelandrone says:
        
        Jul 07, 2023 at 18:26
        
        which one is the lie? I am curious.
        
        Reply
Enuona says:

Jul 07, 2023 at 11:34

Lume.

Done properly on relevant watches it’s a great feature. If not, it’s a 100% meaningless joke, which if used in advertising by brands, is consumer fraud.

Reply
1. MB
  MarkB says:
  
  Jul 07, 2023 at 11:56
  
  I’d say it’s handy on any watch if you need to see what the time is in the dark, which I suspect nearly all of us do from time to time. I agree it should be applied properly though; a reasonable amount on hour and minuite hands plus at least the 4 main indices as a bare minimum.
  
  Reply
  1. Enuona says:
    
    Jul 07, 2023 at 12:41
    
    It’s a prioritised feature for my purposes, and I don’t think it would cost them much to do it properly, merely a question of the cost of materials, and likely not additional manufacturing costs and so on.
    
    I fully understand that it is and should be a design choice for homages/reissues and so on, but one shouldn’t accept it for a modern design “tool watch”. I’ve been had, and just have to laugh out loudly. As I do writing this ?
    
    Reply
Ron_W says:

Jul 07, 2023 at 11:45

One of my favorite watches suffers from a useless function, the reset to zero function which could be seen as a stopwatch/timer, but because you can not stop the seconds hands you just have to guess if it is 1.17 or 1.18 minutes lap time.

The resetting/flyback function is a pleasure to watch so it is good for some visual fun, and just leave the large seconds hand running like a normal watch.

Reply
Gerard says:

Jul 07, 2023 at 13:09

I wouldn’t say the screw down crown on the 30m Panerai is useless. A screw-down crown is not just for getting a higher pressure rating; it also protects the crown from bending or breaking when struck. With a crown sticking out as far as it does on this Panerai, and no crown guards, I can see it as a useful feature.

Reply
Angry_bird says:

Jul 07, 2023 at 13:43

GMT. It was a time I traveled a lot, never had a problem to figure out what was the time at home.
I like the look of GMT-master or Longines ZULU, but I know these ones will be useless for me. Even chronograph is more useful.

Reply
1. DG
  GoldenYears says:
  
  Jul 07, 2023 at 15:52
  
  I would agree with you. I own a number of GMT watches, including a Rolex GMT Master II, and I find the GMT function to be useless. When I was working, I was a frequent international traveler (travel approximately 9-10 months of the year) as I had a regional role. Now, that I’m retired I don’t travel internationally as frequently, but I still travel a lot. Used the GMT function maybe a handful of times in 25 years. The Apple iPhone is much better at tracking multiple times zones and it’s self adjusting. Still, I’m happy owning my GMT watches.
  
  Reply
  1. Bob says:
    
    Jul 07, 2023 at 17:13
    
    The GMT hand isn’t even useful for pilots any longer. Every airplane now has GPS/GNSS capability. I’m an old guy and I like having the GMT hand, but as a pilot today, it’s useless.
    
    Reply
    1. DG
      GoldenYears says:
      
      Jul 07, 2023 at 23:33
      
      I’m an old guy too. Agree. Maybe after my upcoming cataract surgery I can read the date window on my watches again ?. Hoping so…
      
      Reply
  2. MB
    MarkB says:
    
    Jul 07, 2023 at 23:41
    
    There’s a lot of GMT watches I like, but for travelling, I’d be more likely to use the world-time capabilities of my Casios or maybe invest in a Seiko Astron if I was travelling regularly. My only GMT watch is a Citizen Promaster World Time, a ‘true’ GMT which only cost £175.
    
    Reply
Penn Penev says:

Jul 07, 2023 at 13:47

Well, jewellery disguised as a watch is the ultimate example of a decadent trend, few can afford, most of us just shrug off..

Reply
Till says:

Jul 07, 2023 at 14:27

I don’t totally agree on some of those.
As I said in another post, the cyclops is really quite nice to have if one is far-sighted as most people over 50 start to be.

The screwdown crown on a 30m watch still has a good reason. Two actually.
1. The crown stem on a normal watch is connected to the movement. If the crown gets a shock this will go straight into the movement and/or break the stem. Given that the crown is quite exposed and door jambs still exist that is not an unlikely scenario. Did happen to me. A screwdown crown offers better protection.

2. When we watch nerds lay down a watch we do not want it to be scratched. If we position it crown downwards the large surface left side doesn’t get scratches. Scratches on the crown will be much rarer and much less visible. Lastly, many watches are regulated with special attention to the crown down position for this is the position the watch will be in most of the time. Hence, laying it down on the crown makes sense.

The moonphase can be useful for anybody having anything to do with nautics and nature. The ordinary chap can still use it to roughly track the monthly cycle of his wife in order to be extra nice to her when anything else would lead to trouble. ?

The power reserve on an automatic watch is very handy as soon as you use several watches in rotation. You can then check when it’s time to wear that watch again before you must reset it.

I think an interesting article would be one about watches that are so intelligently designed that they offer smart features that are indeed useful for most people.

This might explain the success of the Rolex Sub. Accurate, robust, now even more useful power reserve, good lume, easy to read including the date and with a bezel that allows for short timing and reminder functions.

In that vein I also like watches with a power reserve of at least 72h. A bracelet that features a quick adjust is practical indeed. As well as a bracelet that can easily be switched without tools or where even links can be exchanged without tools e.g. IWC Ingenieur 3227-01, which does not have the easy extension feature.

Could you make an article on super practical watches please? I have never read one.

Reply
1. Robert-Jan says:
  
  Jul 07, 2023 at 14:42
  
  Thanks for your comment. It’s different for everyone I guess, depending on what you do or what your needs are. As for super practical watches, we did a series on those last month (GADA watches).
  
  Reply
EB
EDDI2142 says:

Jul 07, 2023 at 14:34

Something that just popped into my mind. Watches without minute track and hour indices.
When catching a train or bus, it doesn’t help if you vaguely know what time it is (of course one can set it ahead a couple of minutes, but it’s still vague).

Reply
AM
tmc says:

Jul 07, 2023 at 15:21

day night indicators are useful for drunks and?

Reply
Nenad says:

Jul 07, 2023 at 16:23

– AR coating on top of the crystal.
– Leap year indicator.
– Screw down crown on a handwound watch.
– Three or more lines of text on a dial.
– Printed fake patination spots on a dial.
– Date function without the quick-set feature

Reply
brooklyn_boy says:

Jul 07, 2023 at 19:33

Every feature is useful for the sake of argument.

Reply
DK
Ayreonaut says:

Jul 07, 2023 at 21:13

Model name on the dial. So many model names are so cringey.

Reply
1. SC
  Tam O’ Banter says:
  
  Jul 08, 2023 at 04:18
  
  A truly confident manufacturer has no need of all that verbiage. Logo on the dial is all you need. Information on the back.
  But we know why they do this. To get the sale at the moment the potential customer picks the watch up.
  
  Reply
speed-detender says:

Jul 08, 2023 at 04:03

Ridiculous: Helium valve. (apart from the 0,25% professionel divers out there).

Reply
1. Enuona says:
  
  Jul 09, 2023 at 02:34
  
  I’m rather curious about the atmosphere, pressure, decompression and descent/ascent times when visiting the very bottom of the Mariana Trench in a sub. Surely the pressure inside the sub must be aligned with outside pressure requiring 6000m or 11000m wr watches. Surely they need a helium valve for the atmosphere. And surely a 60 minute dive bezel is required.
  
  Without any connection whatsoever to subs beyond a friend pioneering ROV’s and another working operatively on nuke subs, never having discussed any such topic with them, my 3 questions are simple:
  
  1: Why?
  2: Which watches do one actually need in a sub hovering just above the bottom of the Mariana Trench?
  3: Do Advanced Padi diving (100ft/30m) require a technically better watch than the Mariana Trench in a sub?
  
  Reply
SC
Tam O’ Banter says:

Jul 08, 2023 at 04:08

Anyone who has lived with a solar quartz watch knows that any other movement is inferior technology.
People and companies go on about the latest hairspring alloy, or escapement. Millions, possibly billions have been spent dragging this centuries-old idea to modern standards of accuracy. And the progress since The Court of Madame de Pompadour has been amazing.
But it’s like spending months training someone very talented to draw perfectly straight lines. Much better to just buy a ruler.

As many others have said, water resistance higher than 200m is totally irrelevant to 99.9% of the population.

Tachymetres too. But they are very cool. ?

I have always found a count-down timer far more useful than a chronograph. Also, the shortest possible reaction time of a human is (I believe) 0.2s. Most of will react more slowly. And we don’t react uniformly every time!

I have NEVER found any watch alarm loud enough to wake me.

Perpetual calendars have always struck me as pointless

Tourbillions ? Bleuch!

Claiming that big heavy cases and thick crystals make a watch with a standard movement “tough”

Reply
1. Tissot11 says:
  
  Jul 09, 2023 at 09:55
  
  A watch job is to tell time accurately and if possible day and date. Perpetual calendar is a very useful feature much any other nonsensical features like Tachymetres put on the watches.
  
  Reply
  1. SC
    Tam O’ Banter says:
    
    Jul 09, 2023 at 12:51
    
    The perpetual calendar on a G-Shock is useful. Being forced to pay tens of thousands for a fragile mechanical QP is nonsense.
    
    Reply
JW
OldJohnBulova says:

Jul 10, 2023 at 19:02

-Have to agree— watches with no minute track, no hour markers, or worst of all neither nor, are the absolute WORST. (ie CartierTank with blank black dial, or the similarly useless Movado watch that used to be popular. Worst.)
-Also two-hander watches in general. It upsets me.
-Also skeletonized dials. Extremely useless, almost never legible and just about always looks terrible ?

Reply
KirkMac says:

Jul 11, 2023 at 17:49

So many rules! Let me take some notes so that I don’t make a faux pas while under the gaze of the Gatekeepers!
“Oh nooooo! I’m wearing a GMT with a fixed bezel!”

Reply
JS
Fritzchen says:

Jul 11, 2023 at 18:24

Sweep hand

Reply
Robbie says:

Jul 12, 2023 at 20:04

I love dive chronographs and will go down with this ship!

Reply
DW
yellowhandup says:

Jul 17, 2023 at 15:23

Perpetual calendar on a dive watch is useless. You’ve only got 20mins of air!
JLC Polaris Perpetual Calendar.

Reply
MM
MM says:

Jul 19, 2023 at 13:24

Power reserve is very useful for people like me who sometimes stay home all weekend and don’t wear a watch at all. Just like a 6000m rating.. how may have ever gone beyond 30m?

Reply